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Jeez, how old were those kids you were teaching to?

Coz it sounds like teenagers or even younger... ^^

It's been ages since my last teaching duties at the University, but there I recall young-adults (well, I'd still call them teenagers as I was teaching to freshmen and women) to be quite on track with the reality of human sex. Although it quite well be that back then I was much younger too, and my own misconception of what sex means once you've lived more than one third of your life might had altered the perception of my students knowledge of reality as well XD

CAP is intended for teaching at high schools, so between 12 and 18. This group in particular was around 15 to 16-ish.

I think that it depends a lot on who is your teacher, or the school (I have heard several times from teachers that Opus Dei high schools and some other religious schools just skip those topics, even if it is illegal). Part of the problem is time constriction. There are a lot of lessons, and they don't have a lot of time to explain everything about sexuality so the focus is usually in teaching prevention of pregnancy and STDs, and that are usually OK, and nowadays they teach about sexuality as a spectrum but they don't teach you a lot about sex as more than a reproductive act. Do you want to have sex with people of your same sex? You'll have to learn on internet (probably with porn). Do you know what a "clitoris" is? It's not important for learning about pregnancy, so they'll probably skip talking about it. Anal sex? Not important for pregnancy Toys? Not important for pregnancy.

So you have people who don't know that most women can't orgasm with vaginal penetration alone, or that some lube can damage condoms (and toys) or that some toys are not exactly safe, and how to clean them properly so to avoid infections or transmission of STDs. Or just how to avoid injuries

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/0...

I fully agree with you Faris, and I would also add cultural constrains to sexual education to the list of possible boundaries to what people learn and teach about it.

i.e. I have the impression that, when I was young and was told about those topics, in Spanish tradition, which was back then highly influenced by Catholicism and post-dictatorship politics and socioeconomics, sexual topics were pretty much a social tabu, particularly when I compare how was I introduced to those topics and how all the people I've known while living abroad (US, UK and CH) have been.

Oooooh, yes!

I still remember the controversy some years ago about what were dubbed by the press "talleres de masturbación"

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/563017/0/talleres/...

http://elpais.com/diario/2010/03/21/opinion/126912...

What was teached in those workshops?

http://losplaceresdelola.blogspot.com.es/2009/10/c...

El Fanzine:
Revistilla de artículos cortos con una gráfica súper directa. En él hablamos de cosas como:

Los mitos que circulan por ahí.
La guerra que se hace a nuestra seguridad a través de los cuerpos.
Masculinidad.
Homosexulidad femenina y masculina.
Asertividad.
Autodefensa y abusos.
Feminismo.
Genitales: femeninos, masculinos e intersexuales.
Juguetes eróticos.
Bibliografía y recursos.
Pasatiempos.

Horrific! I need a couch so I can faint!

Ironically, nobody said anything when my teachers were explaining in class what a dildo was, and speaking about dildos made of ass (the animal) and women that fucked a whole army. Of course, that was in Galician literature class, not in Biology. Medieval literature is really interesting XD

Buuuut I don't think that we are so bad, compared with other countries. At least, not with some parts of the US, where they still have "abstinence only" education.

This conversation is very interesting, guys :DDD Go on :DDD And I would like add that when I was young, in the High School, these guys from social thing-whatever explained to us about sex and that stuff. Ok, so a lot of classmates said, joking, of course (well, I hoped so) that they knew a lot of this XDDXD When a girl asked if she could be pregnanted because she made (or did, I don't know the verb XD) a fellatio when she was with a guy, and she swallowed what we already know, my classmates didn't know the answer O.O Uau XDXDXD

i.e. I have the impression that, when I was young and was told about those topics, in Spanish tradition, which was back then highly influenced by Catholicism and post-dictatorship politics and socioeconomics, sexual topics were pretty much a social tabu

Yes and no. You know, right after Paquito el Rana kicked the bucket, there was a sort of very avant-garde time when a lot of things bloomed, and people tried to take tentative steps towards more "progressive" approaches to things, amongst them education in general (and sexual education as a subset of it). I do distinctly remember it was on the bleak December a collection for family education called "El niño y tú" that was always around the house, and that was simple enough for even me to understand back then. And it had a long section on "The child and Religion" and it spoke about *GASP!* non-Catholic religions! And in "The Child and School" it even discussed class issues related to children from *GASP!* other countries and religions/social strata! And they even dared have one titled "The child and sexuality" *GASP!*. And it even had pictures. There were actual children´s pictures, and they were even *GASP!* naked!.

I can hardly imagine our black cassock-and-sabre Spain we all know having had a hand on it*. So yes, on a point, there was a very heavy legacy dating way back from our recalcitrant habit of being "more Pope-ist than the Pope", but there was a moment in time where there was a genuine bet for different forms and approach, and we just... didn´t take it. And I think when we find out why, we might find the answer to a lot of questions.

I think that the main issue, actually, it's the lack of emotional education, or of any kind of attention towards teaching not only mental, but emotional maturity as well. I think there's very little effort- if any- put un teaching teenagers about understanding emotions, creating rapport, supportive behaviours or identifying and dealing with crises, anxiety, fears, etc. We simply wait until they "grow out of it" (as emotionally stinted adults) or it gets out of hand, and then we call the psychologists in to fix the damage, instead of trying to give them tools to prevent said damage from happening on the first place.

And that's, I think, the problem. Sex creates- or can create- a ton of very powerful, and sometimes conflicting and confusing emotions. Not knowing how to appropiately deal with them of channel them leads to feelings of guilt, shame, fear and of "not doing something right". Because sex is supposed to be super-good, yet if you experience those feelings... then surely it´s something wrong with you, isn´t it? Then, of course, like anything that´s unpleasant to you, you´ll avoid the subject, or will try to sort if out clandestinely, without asking for help.

If people were more familiar with the mechanics of things such as attraction, desire, the physical and mental reactions to stimulation and pleasure and interpersonal relations and the dynamics of power in relationships, they would probably be much better equipped to understand the complex interactions between sex and feelings... or their lack thereof, and accept that it´s perfectly valid to engage in it without any feelings attached, just because you both (or three, or four, or...) enjoy it in the purely physical level. It wouldn't be a panacea- you can hear a lot about certain things, but you won´t really know until you experience them, but I think it might do a lot more for sex education than knowing all there is to know about dildos, contraception, vulvas, penises, corpus cavernosums and the kama sutra (important as it is to know).

Maybe I´m a bit overly optimistic and there´d be no time and/or people to teach that, but...

I'm sorry for the future problems :(

Good luck with the job-hunting! Hope to see you back soon with some good news.
 

Cita:

I agree. Society is not teaching that sex is mixed with emotions. Of course that emotions don't need to be about real love but they need to be trust, for example. Or joy. And, of course, desire.
But teenagers are only thinking "I have to do it because everyone does", "I have to do it because my girl/boyfriend wants"... "I have to"

Most of the times, they speak about sex as they were anxious. I remember that when I was a teenager everybody says "Take your time". Nobody says that anymore. Films, advertisements... all the inputs they receive are "Hurry, do it, hurry, anyway, with anyone, but just do it"

Cita:

It doesn't matter. Teenagers don't listen when their teachers when they try to explain contraceptives. It's amazing because they don't care. I remember, 10 years ago, a conversation with a boy that was 18 years old. He told me that he really thinks that it was impossible he caught AIDS!!!!! O_o

Cita:

Oooohhh!!! I'm so sorry you have to come back... I hope it all ends well.

I'm sorry for the future problems :(

You don't have to be sorry, Real Life^TM is like that sometimes. I wish you best of Luck and that you can be back full time soon (because you don't have to look for it anymore)

I think that the main issue, actually, it's the lack of emotional education, or of any kind of attention towards teaching not only mental, but emotional maturity as well. I think there's very little effort- if any- put un teaching teenagers about understanding emotions, creating rapport, supportive behaviours or identifying and dealing with crises, anxiety, fears, etc. We simply wait until they "grow out of it" (as emotionally stinted adults) or it gets out of hand, and then we call the psychologists in to fix the damage, instead of trying to give them tools to prevent said damage from happening on the first place.

I mostly agree with you, although I think that understanding what is normal with your body is part of dispelling the myths about sex and contributing to eliminate anxiety and false expectaitons. People would be happier if they wouldn't expect their first time to be like Hollywood films, with everybody orgasming at the same time and with penetration alone. Or if talking about menstruation wasn't taboo and we could say that for some women it really hurts and you don't have to just bear with it. Or we could see that erections are complicated, sometimes happen even if you are not aroused and sometimes even when you have.

But

then we call the psychologists in to fix the damage

Bwahahahahaha. Call the psycologists? We give them a rap on the head and say to them "a ver si se te pasa la tontería ya" (because psycology problems are not real, and you only have to wish it to do things the proper way) or say "Una guerra hacía falta" (because, you know, after the Spanish Civil War everybody was a sensible and centered adult)

Fair warning, I think less of everybody who says "una guerra hacía falta" seriously. I hate that phrase with passion.

It doesn't matter. Teenagers don't listen when their teachers when they try to explain contraceptives. It's amazing because they don't care. I remember, 10 years ago, a conversation with a boy that was 18 years old. He told me that he really thinks that it was impossible he caught AIDS!!!!! O_o

I think that a lot of teenagers are VERY curious about sex, precisely because nobody explains anything to them. They feel the pressure to present themselves as experts (especially boys) and tv and society teaches them that people that don't know about sex are losers. That doesn't mean that all teenagers listen or all teachers are the best of the best.

Once, I asked a high school teacher if it was difficult to give a class about sexuality and if the teenagers laughed and made jokes. He said that, in his experience, sexuality was the lesson where they really listen and are interested. When he was started, he gave to the students the opportunity to ask any questions they wanted, anonymously. He doesn't do it anymore, but he said that they always have lots of questions, and when you give them the opportunitty to ask questions they'll really take it.

I mostly agree with you, although I think that understanding what is normal with your body is part of dispelling the myths about sex and contributing to eliminate anxiety and false expectaitons. People would be happier if they wouldn't expect their first time to be like Hollywood films, with everybody orgasming at the same time and with penetration alone. 

Good point. That's fairly important, too. And it does kind of go hand in hand. It´s important for people to know that maybe you´ll need some time and get to know each other before you "click" and find your rhythm with a partner, and that erogenous zones can change from person to person... but also, if you were taught that you don't have to go for the ejaculation like it was a speedrun and that arousal requires work, experimentation and atmosphere, probably a lot of people's first times wouldn't be so underwhelming. Both things kind of support each other. But yes, of course, learning about the body is as important as about the mind.

Fair warning, I think less of everybody who says "una guerra hacía falta" seriously. I hate that phrase with passion.

My personal nemesis is "Un pico y una pala os daba yo". I still get that sometimes, because older people don´t believe that game design is a "real" profession. Last time I told the guy who said that "Ok, let's do this. Get a shovel and a pickaxe and go out there see if you actually land a job. If you do, I quit mine and I go dig wherever I have to, no questions asked. If you don't, I take that shovel and break it across your back".

We never had that conversation again.

I think that a lot of teenagers are VERY curious about sex, precisely because nobody explains anything to them. They feel the pressure to present themselves as experts (especially boys) and tv and society teaches them that people that don't know about sex are losers.

Yeah, that an entirely different beast here... peer pressure and toxic gender stereotypes. That view of having sexual relationships as having attached "full manhood", where the boys are expected to be the initiator that "conquers" the girl despite her not wanting to, full Tenorio-style, and the girl is the one that gets the "experienced" degree by having lots of sex- BUT ONLY because he chooses to, because she´s in full control and has them all wrapped around her little finger.

Not to mention how our culture teaches boys that personal boundaries are to be gotten past as some kind of trophy ("yes is yes and no is yes") and that true machos are mercurial and have a temper and a "pronto", and teaches girls to be constantly on guard and to keep boys within safe distance- which, seeing how boys are raised, is sadly a fairly good idea.

Result? Everyone lies (if teenagers had sex as often as they say they do in front of others, there wouldn't be a single virgin teen in Spain, and around 50% of them would be actively polyamorous), the liar needs to keep inventing lies to not be found out, and with each turn of the screw, the information about sex running around the "inner circle" of friends starts resembling less biology and more science fiction.

And then they wonder why intra-sex relationships are so awkward...

I think that's also why it's important to highlight the emotional component. It fosters empathy. And a lot of this toxic piles of shit will start dying down if people were more able to see each other as full, sensitive human beings with feelings and fears, and not as a exoskeleton for genitals. This, sadly, does not stop with teenagers, it happens to adults as well.

He said that, in his experience, sexuality was the lesson where they really listen and are interested. 

That´s my experience as well. I created a mail account specifically for this and made clear that whatever they asked would not go out of there. And that they could just create a mail, call it "engochiponcio89xoxo" and I´d never even know who was asking what. I got nothing for some time. Then a couple things arrived, and when I took the time to actually respond, the mail count literally cascaded.

I think what frustrates them and they don´t like about it is, first, being treated like idiots. For the most part, most of them know how reproduction works, and most would have heard at least of contraception (parents are generally stricter in that, especially with girls for obvious risks involved). Sure, it´s what it´s most important for the here and now, but it´s not really what they want to know, and it frustrates them. The second one is peer pressure. Sex ed is, above all, that class where you don´t want to ask questions, because you don't want to appear as not knowing before your peers (or worse yet, be found out if you´ve already done the Parchis: eat one and count twenty).

The third is that you are, well, an adult. You know how teenagers are. Adults are the enemy. The ones that don´t understand, the ones that say things that are true for them but not for you, the ones that only want you to get grood gades and do stuff, the ones that are boring and routine and don´t know anything, etc. It hurts their pride a lot having to stand there and admit that, at least in this particular respect, you are the one that actually is in the know here. And teenagers put a lot of stock in pride.

Give them a discrete way of asking the questions they really want to make, and they will.

Completely agree with you.

Talking about stereotypes,  I was surprised to see that Nintendo America has (very timidly) tried to attract some male consumers to one of its "games for girls"

Seems that the author they quote not only reviewed the first one, but absolutely loved it.

I shouldn't even have to say it - I wasn't exactly all that serious about Style Savvy when the rest of the staff decided to volunteer me for the review. I expected to get a few laughs out of the game and maybe get negative bragging rights with my fellow members of the press at the next big industry event I attended. "Oh yeah? Well I had to review Style Savvy," I would say, and we'd laugh and laugh. I had it all planned out in my head. And then I started enjoying the game.

Long story short, I have read his review of the third installment, and it seems that there are more male gamers in the comments that confess that, yes, they enjoy the game, or feel curious about it. It's nice to see this type of encouragement to enjoy something even if it's not "for boys"

On the other hand, after washing one of my soldiers Teddy bears (Yes, I have several soldiers teddy bears. My brother is a soldier and he buy me one in most of his missions), it, somehow, became slightly pink and now everybody feel the need to say that it is still nice, but now it is a girl or say that it is a gay teddy bear. It's just a bit pink. I don't feel the need to especulate about the sexuality of my teddy bears. Fine, I have a couple that are the dad and the mom, but that's it.

And when my sister and I bought a hot pink toy for our dog, the lady vendor asked if our dog was female, and seemed a bit unsure when we said no. It was the brighter colour and we thought that it would be easier to see it in the high grass. I think that my dog doesn't care about the color of his toys, but maybe I should worry about emasculating him.

Long story short, I have read his review of the third installment, and it seems that there are more male gamers in the comments that confess that, yes, they enjoy the game, or feel curious about it. It's nice to see this type of encouragement to enjoy something even if it's not "for boys"

All it´s a matter of mechanics, boiling it down. You can change the way you dress them, the atmosphere you put them in, give them a more masculine or feminine atmosphere and theme, word dialogs differently, set them up differently... but in the end, if the mechanic is solid and fun, then the game is. There's a reason the core loop of the game is usually the first thing you start designing and one of the last you close up. From what I can tell here, the base mechanic in this game is the same you could use, barring production values, theme, size of the team and money, you could use to prepare the loadout for a Rainbow Six Game:

Brief mission (Client) -> Identify goals (request) -> Review available tools (shop inventory) -> Identify most idoneous tools for mission (match style and clothes) -> prepare loadout. 

Sure, in one you pick "Mango skirts that are +5 casual and +10 office wear" and in the other you pick a "H&K MP5 which has +5 rate of fire and +10 accuracy". Base action? Exactly the same. Identify stats, match stats to required variable, compare output to desired threshold, calculate success rate, go. A good mechanic and balancing makes good games, whether they are about blowing off terrorists of being fa-bu-lous-ly dressed for a ball.

If more people were aware of this, and were able to boil down the core mechanics and game experience, we'd probably start seeing much more interesting and well-designed games for target male and female audiences. The current stigma on "girl" games is not so much a matter of the target audience, but a matter of the fact that, most often, girl games were lacking in, well... game.

Sure, they gave you nice, long catalogs of accessories for your fashion shop/horse/soccer team, and then nothing to do with them. I do remember when I did QA for Imagine Being: Girl Soccer Trainer, or something like that. I could have any kind of uniform and hair and wristbands I could dream of, and then step in the field and, after some prodding, trying and getting the hang of the system, win any match in the session for, oh, about 11-0 or so. Seriously, I was the best soccer team ever. I did not lose or tie one single match in 4 sessions and my goal average numbered in the hundreds. I could have won the World Cup with my 13 year-old-girls team. 

Of course, after the first 8-hour working day with it, I was bored out of my skull. By the time the game signed off, I would have rather signed up to spend my working hours repeatedly slamming my genitals with a hammer.

I think that's where a lot of the stigma of "girls" games come from. Not that there is an averse reaction to "girly" thematics like fashions, horse grooming or pajama parties, but the fact that frankly, most of the games using that thematic were frankly atrocious. On the reasons why, I could fill book upon book on stockholder and middle manager mentality in the games industry, but that´s another thing altogether...

I'm going to disagree with you, because I played the game and the gameplay it's not that great XD

I am bad at almost every game and I mostly play RPGs and strategy games. I play mostly for the story, or because killing things is relaxing (Aaaaah! The satisfying sensation of shooting the head of a mutant off in Fallout)

I don't play dress up frequently but sometimes I do because I find them relaxing. Mind you, lots of people love dress up games. Children played them with dolls and paper dolls before the internet, and you can find hundreds of free browser dress up games. You don't play dress up games because of the mechanics. You play them for the pretty dresses. Because you can create something. They are like coloring books, maybe you can't draw, but you still can colour inside the lines and create something that is yours.

Now, about the game:

Story: You gain a boutique. You manage that boutique. You gain money. You keep doing that until the heat death of the universe. Everybody loves you (there is not romance or real social interactions. They just love you)

Gameplay: You have to identify the style of the client and get clothes that are right for her. But mostly, that means identifying the brand they wear or want (there are 16) or those more similar, and they are different enough that after a while that will be ridiculously easy. If you don't know the brand or don't have it in stock, you can try to guess her favourite colour and they will buy everything. You still don't have anything they will like in stock? Try whatever you want, you'll have a 50% posibility of selling them that. You'll never lose a client permanently (you can sell them nothing, but they will be back) You can't lose money unless you buy and buy and thow everything away without trying to sell it. And even them, the game will give you money to start again. You literally can't lose.

And yes, you have to choose what to have in stock for every season and have a varied inventory within the constraints if you want to sell something every time. But it's really easy even if you are not seriously trying.

Collecting things: there are more than 10000 different pieces of clothes. You have to play for a long time to collect everything (you can't have everything in your boutique at the same time, but you can collect them in your house and dress up your avatar with them)

Pretty dresses: They are preeeeetty! The lace! The colours! The details!

They are pretty, you hear me?! Preeeetty!

You can design your own clothes, but the options are very limited, just changing the colour. But you can dress your avatar, choose outfits for your clients and change the hairstyle and make up of your avatar.

It is nicer and better than other dress up games, but what it isn't is really challenging. Maybe if you are a kid and then...well, fair enough, it's a game for kids. But I don't think that adults enjoy it because of the "quests" (although it add some variety to the gameplay). The main draw is the possibility of designing varied outfits.

Have I said that the dresses are pretty?

Preeeeeeeeeeeetty!

Ah, yes. I didn't mean the game specifically, or how it works. My points is that, in purely mechanic terms (in terms of the concept you work with before you even code the game), the base operation is the same. Of course, the final experience will depend on a lot of other things (number and complexity of variables you involve, relative importance of them, interrelations with them, learning curve, how lenient or punishing you are...), but in the end, the nuts and bolts of managing an inventory and picking the gear for a quest are the same, be that quest blowing terrorists up or blowing your customer´s minds with the prettiness of your dresses.

So, there´s no valid reason why a dress up game couldn't be mechanically solid, or why mechanically solid dress up games could not be made that more than their target audience could enjoy. They just don´t get made because of... well, I could write a book about all that.

 But I don't think that adults enjoy it because of the "quests" (although it add some variety to the gameplay). The main draw is the possibility of designing varied outfits.

Sure, people can enjoy everything. I personally hate Candy Crush with the growing passion of a thousand burning suns, but millions of people love it and regularly spam my facebook inbox to let me know. And then, I personally love all those old dating sims where you do stuff and bars rise and you need to get them to a certain score to get laid with the girl. And I don't even care too much about the getting laid part (writing is atrociously nuanced, repetitive and in general un-sexy, and you can get fappable images in the net without investing hours to get them). What tickles my fancy is those little bars going up and down and knowing that damn, I gotta get that bar up here before end of the week or else. People find baffling I can find that interesting.

So, bottom line? People can enjoy anything for the widest variety of reasons.

So, bottom line? People can enjoy anything for the widest variety of reasons.

Well, I admit that I'm a sucker for games with some kind of progress mechanic (levels, progression in abilities, investigation trees), even some that are very lame.

By the way, maybe you want to check Long Live the Queen. I think that you'll like the mechanic, even if is not a dating game. And I find the writing very entertaining (you can download a free demo)

And what about the other people here? What kind of videogames do you like? Shooters or RPG? PC, consoles, handheld consoles...?

What kind of videogames do you like? Shooters or RPG? PC, consoles, handheld consoles...?

Oh, I like RPG a lot ^^ My favorite game is Final Fantasy *.* I have been waiting for the new Final for years and years, and I am looking forward to playing >.< XDXDXD

But, when I am with friends, I prefer a shooter ^^ Because the fun is more intensive, and you can play against your friends :DDDD XDDXDXD

What kind of videogames do you like? Shooters or RPG? PC, consoles, handheld consoles...?

I don´t play videogames much nowadays. When I did, I guess RPG on the PC were my favourites. I did play some World of Warcraft for a while, and games like Assassin´s Creed, but in recent years nothing. Too bad, I sort of miss them. Ah, but I have played recently Lego Star Wars, Lego Lord of the Rings, Lego Jurassic World... That´s on the PS3.